We talk about Mike’s work engineering for
Black Sabbath. He worked on the mighty Sabbath Bloody Sabbath & Sabotage
What was your background Mike?
I was an in-house engineer at Morgan Studios in London. I started my career there and in the early 70s there was one week where six of the top twenty best selling albums in the States had been recorded, or partially recorded, at Morgan. It was one of the leading studios in the world.
Originally Tony (Iommi) came in with a Birmingham band called Necromandus which he produced and I was assigned to do. He didn’t know me before-hand and we got on very well together. Then I think he was doing a little test. He came in with Bill Ward because Bill wanted to do a solo track. I think it was to see if Bill liked my drum sound, so we recorded this one track. I don’t know if anything ever happened to it, I don’t think I even got as far as mixing it. Anyway, Bill seemed to like the drum sound.
And this was leading up to recording Sabbath Bloody Sabbath in September ’73?
Yes. Sabbath then came to the studio so I could meet them and they asked me to record the album in the States. I was a young engineer and I thought it was just fantastic, going off to California. They went over there a couple of months before I was due to join them so they could rehearse. Two days before I was supposed to fly out I got a message from their management saying they had been back to see the studio and it had changed and they didn’t like it so they were going to come back home. They decided to record the album at Morgan and a few weeks later we started recording there.
What were they like to work with?
I liked them, they were very friendly people. To be honest a lot of the time it was a bit like schoolkids -playing jokes, jumping around – but when we worked, we really did work. I really appreciated that about Sabbath, when they needed to concentrate they did and put the time in.
Can you fill me in on the environment at Morgan?
In the main building we had Studio One and Two, and across the road we had Studio Three. By Sabotage (in 1975) we had four studios. Yes were in Studio Three while we were recording SBS in Studio Two.
Morgan had a Steinway piano and it was the engineer’s responsibility to make sure it wasn’t damaged. One day in Studio Two the piano lid was open and the strings were exposed. We had some take-away Chinese food and Bill was standing in front of the piano. Ozzy shouted, ‘Hey Bill catch this’ and he threw an open packet of fried rice at Bill who jumped out of the way. All of the rice fell into the piano. I remember the tape-op (David Harris) just looking at me – he didn’t say anything, we didn’t have to speak. He rushed to get a vacuum cleaner. Luckily the rice hadn’t managed to fall under the strings too much and we managed to get almost all of the rice out.
Morgan was the first studio to have an independent bar/ restaurant. The bar was in the main building so Yes would come over there. So they got talking to Rick (Wakeman) while he was in the bar. He played piano on Sabbra Cadabra and synthesiser on Who Are You
Do you recall how they worked on the songs?
For the basic tracks they were very well rehearsed, so we would get the basic track down in two or three takes usually.
It’s true that Tony was the main man. Geezer had ideas too and the other two were consulted, Bill of course about the percussion and Ozzy sometimes would give his opinion. They would come in knowing what tracks they were going to record, but the final running order was worked out later. We did an initial running order and then when we listened back to it we didn’t like it so it got changed. I wish I could remember what that original order was.
Mike and I then discussed all the songs but he had little to add about Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and A National Acrobat except agreeing with me how great they both are and that he particularly liked the groovy breakdown section with Geezer’s bass in the latter. We pick up on track three. . .
Fluff is, I think, all recorded by Tony and Geezer.
It is yes. Because of his fingers Tony played very light strings on his guitar. So on an acoustic guitar it’s very difficult to get a nice recorded sound. He told me he played it at his wedding.
Sabbra Caddabra is the big one with Wakeman, but what’s that vocal all about from Ozzy on the outro?
Ozzy had taken it on himself to unleash a volley of words which were too offensive to go out on record. The long jam outro was otherwise great, so to keep it and use it I masked Ozzy’s vocals.
Killing Yourself To Live is another of the best tracks after the opening pair.
At the time of recording that was my favourite song. We mixed it twice. That big reverb on the guitar in the middle, I did it in the first mix and they didn’t like it. Well it was somebody who didn’t like it and they asked me not to do it. Then they asked me to remix the song. So I did a second mix, kept that reverb, and this time they said that’s really good! They were acting like they had never heard it before!
Who Are You was brought in by Ozzy wasn’t it?
It was a bit like they let Ozzy do it, and then Tony and the others thought they had better fix it up and make it a little more interesting. They took rough mixes home and Tony and Geezer came up with that middle section.
Looking For Today sounds different to the rest of the album to me – less dynamic sound.
We didn’t mix all the tracks in the same studio, we used all three of Morgan’s studios. I think that was mixed in Studio 3 which was the newer studio. I think it was the last song we recorded and mixed for the album.
The last track, Spiral Architect, is simply stunning with a great string arrangement.
We knew Spiral Architect was going to be the last track on the album so that’s why the idea for the applause at the end was put forward. Morgan had a production company and Wil Malone was an in-house producer, so he was often around at the studios. So when it came up to have a string arrangement Wil was well into it – he was a great musician and arranger but was also young enough to appreciate rock music. Geezer did kind of a guide string with the mellotron to give some ideas of what was wanted, but most of the arrangement is Wil.
The strings were recorded at Morgan in Studio 2. Wil Malone booked the studio but they never arranged what time, so Wil assumed it would be in the morning, and they assumed it was in the afternoon with the studio booked from 2 in the afternoon. I was at home when I got a phone call saying the string players had turned up to the studio in the morning and the studio wasn’t free. It was supposed to be Studio 1 but luckily the people in Studio 2 understood and let us have it. You can’t cancel string players, you have to pay them whether they play or not. So I rushed to the studio in a taxi. When we recorded the strings Sabbath weren’t there. I think Spock Wall was there, we managed to contact him. So when the group turned up the string players had already gone.
Moving on to Sabotage which is said to have been recorded in February/ March 1975.
It was actually recorded over the period of a year. We might do one or tracks in a week and then they would come back again later, so this was not at all done in one block.
It was all recorded though at Morgan in London?
No it wasn’t. I had moved to Brussels in between Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. So then I would go backwards and forwards between Morgan London and Morgan Brussels. I mixed the quadrophonic version of Paranoid while I was in Brussels. Spock Wall came over and supervised that.
We recorded Sabotage in London but there was a period of a few weeks when Morgan, London wasn’t available – there was no studio time – so they came across. We did about two or three weeks at Brussels in March ’75. We had exactly the same console in Brussels as in London Morgan Studio Four, although of course the room acoustics were different. There were no basic tracks recorded there, only overdubs. We did guitar and percussion overdubs, I don’t think we did any vocal overdubs. Then the running order we worked out almost immediately.
One day I was doing a rough mix so very very concentrated at the console and all of a sudden I heard them laughing. I stopped the tape and asked them why they were laughing. They said, ‘well while you were working Ozzy had his dick on your shoulder for about five minutes’. I am not particularly religious but I thanked God I didn’t notice!
The opening track, Hole In The Sky, has this surging power to it. It’s a magnificent start.
That’s me shouting ‘attack’ before it starts. In those days the talkback used to literally be a Tannoy speaker in the studio. Ozzy had told me a story about a support band on one of their tours in the States. This band’s manager was completely over the top, and while they were playing he would be standing at the side of the stage screaming ‘attack’, to get them to give it more energy. This became a running joke between us in the studio, so when I was pushing on the talkback to tell them the tape was rolling, I shouted ‘attack’. When we came to the mix it was still there on the tape so we decided to leave it. It made an interesting start to the album.
That’s backwards cymbals that you can hear on it by the way, we liked it. Hole In The Sky was recorded in the newest studio (four) which had a different sound. The drum mics were placed differently and yeah it came out nice.
Don’t Start, Too Late – the title was an in-joke?
It was something I would say – ‘don’t start’. It became a joke in the studio, when they were saying, ‘can we do this Mike?’ and I would say, ‘don’t start!’ meaning don’t start messing me about or looking for trouble. So the title was just a fun reference.
The first part of Symptom Of The Universe has that killer riff. The jazzy second part sounds like a completely different song bolted on.
A lot of the work was fixing in the overdubs, changing guitar sounds. The basic track was done live. Actually I think the second half was always intended to be added in that way.
Megalomania is the big epic on the album.
Robin Black did the backing tracks on Megalomania as I couldn’t be there. He did another one too and some vocal overdubs which were done on a weekend. I came back for the overdubs, which there were a lot of, and mixed it. Ozzy’s voice with an echo repeat on it fades up in the mix, a trick repeated for every verse. Robin made that effect on Ozzy’s voice of an echo repeat which fades up. I remember that I ‘tweaked’ it. I think the idea for it came from one of the band.
Thrill Of It All is an underrated gem.
Robin Black did Thrill Of It All too, and some vocal overdubs which were done over a weekend.
Next we have the instrumental Supertzar.
Wil Malone was back and did the arrangement. Recording the strings and choir was different to recording a rock band but if you are a good engineer it’s not a problem. I think it was Wil who came up with the idea of the choir and Tony and Geezer said go for it. Both the strings and choir were recorded as overdubs.
Am I Going Insane has that chattering percussion from Bill. Tony I think is too low in the mix though, and just how did you come up with the outro screaming?
Bill suddenly had this idea and said I think I can do something on this. Tony was low in the mix to make it sound different and keep it a more synthesiser piece. As for the screaming what happened was there was a tape lying around in the studio from another session, and it was a baby crying. We found that if you played it back at half speed it sounded like an old man screaming. Somebody had the idea to put that at the end of the track and have it cross- fade into The Writ.
The Writ is an intriguing title and a great finish to the album.
I gave it the title. They didn’t have a title and I said to Tony, call it The Writ. because a few days before somebody had come in and handed Tony a writ. He thought it was funny and immediately said yes we’ll keep that. In fact the title has nothing to do with the song as such.
There is also the uncredited ‘secret’ last track known as Blow On A Jug.
It was recorded at Morgan London. They were standing around the piano and I saw there was a microphone there so I just pushed on record. Bill was on piano and singing with Ozzy standing next to him and singing along. They had no idea it was recorded and never heard it till they got the album. Looking back, yes, it was a brave thing to do to them. I cannot say they were 100% happy at the time when they heard it.
There are rumours that a surround sound Quad or 5.1 mix was made of Sabotage.
I definitely didn’t do a 5.1 mix of Sabotage and I don’t think anybody else did either. Mind you I have often thought that if they got hold of the multi-tracks I wouldn’t mind having a remix. Although generally I prefer albums they were they were originally mixed.
We know the band had huge difficulties with their management and finances at this time. They obviously highly valued your input because you got a co-producer credit this time.
There were difficult times during the recording of Sabotage but I think they liked that I was steady and reliable and would get the job done. I got the producer credit because I interfered a lot (he laughs). It was Bill who said first that they should credit me. I mixed it mostly all day by myself and then they would come in and make comments. I didn’t actually get paid any extra money for being credited as co-producer but it was nice to get the credit. And I think it was also because I stuck with them through a bad time.
Sabbath don’t seem to record extra tracks usually. Was there any for either SBS or Sabotage?
On Sabotage there was one extra song recorded but I don’t think it got to the stage where Ozzy’s vocals were put on. There was a sound effect on it of a Stuka dive bomber. This was added on a session that Robin did. I think the track was left off because it would have made the album too long.
But they did like the overall sound of the finished album?
Oh yes, I was back in Morgan London for another session and they came in to say hello and thank you.
Given how well it had gone for you I am surprised you didn’t get to work on the next album, Technical Ecstasy.
At one point I was supposed to do it but by then I had gone off to live in Brussels. They got in contact with Robin (Black) who they had also got on well with. I didn’t like the album, and not because I didn’t do it. I told them when I heard it that I was not too impressed. It was at a gig in Brussels and I talked to Ozzy about it and said I wasn’t too keen on it and he said when they got to the studio (in Miami) they didn’t like it very much. Ozzy was not entirely happy about how it had gone. I think Tony was trying to do something but I don’t know if he was entirely happy with it either.
What would be your analysis now of Black Sabbath, each member of the band and their value?
When you’ve got a great band you can only mess it up. SBS was recorded on 16 track and Sabotage was recorded on 24 track so it gave more possibilities sound-wise and adding stuff. We would work for say three weeks and then come back a month later. So things would be added to songs sometimes weeks later after the initial sessions .The general vibe of those two albums is very good. To be honest I wasn’t particularly a fan of that kind of music at the time, but I liked working with Sabbath, I liked them as people so I didn’t over analyse it in my head too much.
Everything started with Tony and nearly all the riffs came from him. Bill is an under-rated drummer. For me Sabbath is that band with Bill. I listened to the last album Sabbath did (13) and the drums are very good on it but it’s not Bill. Bill wasn’t just a drummer, he had a distinct musical style and he played riffs on the drums. He was unusual for that style of music. I thought that back at the time we were recording those records. Without him it wouldn’t have been the same. Geezer always had ideas. Tony would bounce off Geezer whereas when Bill had ideas it was more a case of, ‘Oh let Bill try it out’. Because of all the years since and what Ozzy has been through, there is a tendency for people to look back on those years in the wrong way. Ozzy could sing, some of the melodies were not simple and he was doing all that in the days before autotune.
I always say why does a musician play a certain way? Its because of what he had for breakfast etc because life is interactive. You know? Why does the drummer hit the snare drum so hard? Maybe he had an argument with his wife.